The most ambitious rethinking of intimate apparel I’ve yet seen comes from a collaboration between Sébastien Meunier (ex Martin Margiela and Ann Demeulemeester) and Murielle Victorine Scherre, founder of La fille d’O. It launches this week, during the menswear season, to highlight its focus on gender inclusivity. This line is designed for people, regardless of gender, size, or stage of transition or development, and it’s modeled by clients and friends of La fille d’O who styled themselves in the pieces.
This is not the first time that the two Belgians have worked together, but this is the furthest they’ve ever taken their work together. Early in his career, Meunier was deeply engaged in themes around body transformation and identity, motivated in part, by his personal history. “I was a very, very skinny guy—you would call that a twink today, the term wasn’t existing at that period,” he said on a call. “Very skinny, very fragile, and at that period I was fascinated by muscle guys, they were my gay idols. But I couldn’t have muscles. So I did a collection in red and black leather, shown at Hyères, that included pieces with built in muscles.”
At Ann Demeulemeester Meunier started drawing out femininity in his menswear designs, and the masculine in women’s wear. “It’s important to work to make people free with their own identities; not to choose for them, but to let them play and search for themselves,” he said. “There’s really now a lot of people who are also more ready, and open, and feel more free to do that. I think it’s the right period for that.”
At Ann Demeulemeester Meunier started drawing out femininity in his menswear designs, and the masculine in women’s wear. “It’s important to work to make people free with their own identities; not to choose for them, but to let them play and search for themselves,” he said. “There’s really now a lot of people who are also more ready, and open, and feel more free to do that. I think it’s the right period for that.”
Here, Scherre talks about the construction of the Sébastien Meunier et La fille d’O collection, and shares her thoughts on the state of the lingerie industry and how it needs to change.
What did you want to accomplish with this project?
My job is to make ‘le soutien’—support. As more and more gender non-conforming people were finding their way to my store, I noticed they appreciated our aesthetics, but our fit wasn’t designed with their bodies in mind. Lingerie might be the most gendered item in our wardrobe, and it was time to change that.
Working with Sébastien Meunier on this project allowed us to not only attend to the individual needs of this community, but also uplift the designs beyond just the level of function, [and] into the realms of true luxury and fashion as a personal expression of the self.
Why do you think this is important?
As an intimate apparel brand I find it important to be able to support people during anything life might present to them. A person [can decide] to choose a brand; I find it interesting [that] a brand can also choose for their customer, having products on offer to take care of them. To make this relationship a sustainable one, I don’t want to be the brand you think of only when you need an attire for private occasions, I want to be able to support you when you are nursing your newborn baby, and while you recover from a mastectomy, and when you can experience your body for the first time after a gender affirming procedure. I want to be the brand you can reach for when you are working on a performance and you need the perfect costume for your alter ego. I want to be the brand you turn to when you need to feel at home in every single part of your body.
Why is this product so important now?
[Discussions around gender and identity] might seem like a sign of the times, but let’s not confuse a temporary trend with deep progress. Gender non-conforming people have always been around. We reduced a myriad of gender expressions to a binary of just two. Rightfully so, people will reject the restrictions at some point: The time is now.
Why limit ourselves to a binary life [and] having to choose between a shirt that buttons up left to right or right to left? Why choose forever when we never feel the same for 24 hours straight? It is liberating to put clothes back in the corner where they belong: to serve us.
Currently clothes make us unhappy because they try to reduce us to the 0-1 of gender. Clothes ask us to make choices we shouldn’t make—not on behalf of clothes. Fashion should create space for us and lure us in so we can discover all the ways we want to experience our identity.
Did you need to develop new techniques to accommodate the shapes and sizes you were designing for?
Never, ever have I dived so deep into research, since we are dealing with a combination of elements, like biological sex, gender expression, and gender identity. [At La fille d’O] we are also in the process of expanding our size range so [Sébastien and I] decided to offer the collection from size 1 to size 13. On top of that we decided that most items should be reversible, so they create more styling options, according to the occasion. I also added other elements to the mix, like tops for people deciding to go flat after experiencing breast cancer.
Looking at all these different physical bodies with all their expressions and sizes, I soon started seeing physical similarities within the emotional differences; this is where options live. [This process] was very liberating for me as a person, and as a designer. This research invited me to also look at ‘lingerie’ differently. I had to break down the formula into raw elements if I wanted to make progress. I needed to take the underwire and separate it from the cup, so people can build their own intimate apparel by combining the elements in ways that serve them.
We were also lacking vocabulary. When dealing with gender non-conforming people, we had to take into account possible body dysphoria. As designers we often have to refer to people’s body parts, but in this case that could feel highly uncomfortable to [some people], so we invented the terms ‘flat fit’ and ‘bottom cup.’ A flat fit top has no darts, creating no extra cup depth. We created versions of our classical bra designs with a flat fit, so a person with no breasts can wear them, [and] we had to create bottom cup designs, creating space for a penis or a packer.
Referring to the garment, instead of the possible body parts in them, created a safer space for both my team and our models to explore and develop our designs without constantly mentioning a body that does not always feel like a home to them.
The concept of the layering adds so many options to create personal support. When making the patterns we started from a single module, making sure all hemlines layered perfectly with each other, [enabling the ability to create] full looks. We also offer a choice between sheer and opaque fabrics on most designs, allowing a person to either show or hide certain body parts, as they see fit. All garments either flatten, enhance, or exaggerate body parts, [and as] some of them are reversible, it is possible to either fully block out the chest with a top, or show bare breasts. I’m always in for a challenge when it comes to pattern making.
How do you see the lingerie industry changing? Or is it?
There is always change even if there is none. The context changes, even when the object remains the same. Being in this industry since 2003, it is quite shocking to me how little change it allows. Even in fast fashion the lingerie department remains the same as it was 200 years ago; the quality just gets worse. I don’t understand how we have evolved so much, and how our lives expand in every possible direction, and yet our underwear is the exact same object as it was 200 years ago. That makes no sense.
Ok, some brands now use recycled yarn to make their ancient lingerie designs, but that is some poor progress if you compare it with fashion’s timeline. If you were to draw an outline of the fashionable silhouettes of those past hundreds of years, you’d see a lively animation of waistlines and hemlines and accessories and heel heights, [but] in underwear everything is always the exact same thing as it was before and it drives me mad!
This era has new needs and new clothes, and our lingerie is ever so out of fashion. On top of all that rigidness, I see little to no initiative when it comes to sustainability. Bio Cotton is as fancy as it gets most of the time; or to use a size 40 model and call her size inclusive. We need to urgently step up our lingerie game. It’s 2021 and only now are big brands looking into changing their casting philosophy or considering a more moderate use of Photoshop. That’s not good enough.
How would you like to see the industry change?
Lingerie is the foundation of our look. We need choices. Our bodies are malleable and our lingerie should be too. I want lingerie out of the unmentionables department; I want it liberated from gender. Our clothes should be liberated from department [store] floors where one has to choose between men’s or women’s wear, or lingerie or swimwear. Get yourself briefs that can do, and be, both.
I want intimate apparel to be modeled by people that look like me and all the other people I love. I want to see them as they are, because they are beautiful this way. To hell with Photoshop altering the beauty of humans. And I need all these beautiful garments made by people that are paid like me, and are able to live like me. As in nature, if we can change the fashion industry from the bottom up, we are going to go a very long way.
What did you want to accomplish with this project?
My job is to make ‘le soutien’—support. As more and more gender non-conforming people were finding their way to my store, I noticed they appreciated our aesthetics, but our fit wasn’t designed with their bodies in mind. Lingerie might be the most gendered item in our wardrobe, and it was time to change that.
Working with Sébastien Meunier on this project allowed us to not only attend to the individual needs of this community, but also uplift the designs beyond just the level of function, [and] into the realms of true luxury and fashion as a personal expression of the self.
Why do you think this is important?
As an intimate apparel brand I find it important to be able to support people during anything life might present to them. A person [can decide] to choose a brand; I find it interesting [that] a brand can also choose for their customer, having products on offer to take care of them. To make this relationship a sustainable one, I don’t want to be the brand you think of only when you need an attire for private occasions, I want to be able to support you when you are nursing your newborn baby, and while you recover from a mastectomy, and when you can experience your body for the first time after a gender affirming procedure. I want to be the brand you can reach for when you are working on a performance and you need the perfect costume for your alter ego. I want to be the brand you turn to when you need to feel at home in every single part of your body.
Why is this product so important now?
[Discussions around gender and identity] might seem like a sign of the times, but let’s not confuse a temporary trend with deep progress. Gender non-conforming people have always been around. We reduced a myriad of gender expressions to a binary of just two. Rightfully so, people will reject the restrictions at some point: The time is now.
Why limit ourselves to a binary life [and] having to choose between a shirt that buttons up left to right or right to left? Why choose forever when we never feel the same for 24 hours straight? It is liberating to put clothes back in the corner where they belong: to serve us.
Currently clothes make us unhappy because they try to reduce us to the 0-1 of gender. Clothes ask us to make choices we shouldn’t make—not on behalf of clothes. Fashion should create space for us and lure us in so we can discover all the ways we want to experience our identity.
Did you need to develop new techniques to accommodate the shapes and sizes you were designing for?
Never, ever have I dived so deep into research, since we are dealing with a combination of elements, like biological sex, gender expression, and gender identity. [At La fille d’O] we are also in the process of expanding our size range so [Sébastien and I] decided to offer the collection from size 1 to size 13. On top of that we decided that most items should be reversible, so they create more styling options, according to the occasion. I also added other elements to the mix, like tops for people deciding to go flat after experiencing breast cancer.
Looking at all these different physical bodies with all their expressions and sizes, I soon started seeing physical similarities within the emotional differences; this is where options live. [This process] was very liberating for me as a person, and as a designer. This research invited me to also look at ‘lingerie’ differently. I had to break down the formula into raw elements if I wanted to make progress. I needed to take the underwire and separate it from the cup, so people can build their own intimate apparel by combining the elements in ways that serve them.
We were also lacking vocabulary. When dealing with gender non-conforming people, we had to take into account possible body dysphoria. As designers we often have to refer to people’s body parts, but in this case that could feel highly uncomfortable to [some people], so we invented the terms ‘flat fit’ and ‘bottom cup.’ A flat fit top has no darts, creating no extra cup depth. We created versions of our classical bra designs with a flat fit, so a person with no breasts can wear them, [and] we had to create bottom cup designs, creating space for a penis or a packer.
Referring to the garment, instead of the possible body parts in them, created a safer space for both my team and our models to explore and develop our designs without constantly mentioning a body that does not always feel like a home to them.
The concept of the layering adds so many options to create personal support. When making the patterns we started from a single module, making sure all hemlines layered perfectly with each other, [enabling the ability to create] full looks. We also offer a choice between sheer and opaque fabrics on most designs, allowing a person to either show or hide certain body parts, as they see fit. All garments either flatten, enhance, or exaggerate body parts, [and as] some of them are reversible, it is possible to either fully block out the chest with a top, or show bare breasts. I’m always in for a challenge when it comes to pattern making.
How do you see the lingerie industry changing? Or is it?
There is always change even if there is none. The context changes, even when the object remains the same. Being in this industry since 2003, it is quite shocking to me how little change it allows. Even in fast fashion the lingerie department remains the same as it was 200 years ago; the quality just gets worse. I don’t understand how we have evolved so much, and how our lives expand in every possible direction, and yet our underwear is the exact same object as it was 200 years ago. That makes no sense.
Ok, some brands now use recycled yarn to make their ancient lingerie designs, but that is some poor progress if you compare it with fashion’s timeline. If you were to draw an outline of the fashionable silhouettes of those past hundreds of years, you’d see a lively animation of waistlines and hemlines and accessories and heel heights, [but] in underwear everything is always the exact same thing as it was before and it drives me mad!
This era has new needs and new clothes, and our lingerie is ever so out of fashion. On top of all that rigidness, I see little to no initiative when it comes to sustainability. Bio Cotton is as fancy as it gets most of the time; or to use a size 40 model and call her size inclusive. We need to urgently step up our lingerie game. It’s 2021 and only now are big brands looking into changing their casting philosophy or considering a more moderate use of Photoshop. That’s not good enough.
How would you like to see the industry change?
Lingerie is the foundation of our look. We need choices. Our bodies are malleable and our lingerie should be too. I want lingerie out of the unmentionables department; I want it liberated from gender. Our clothes should be liberated from department [store] floors where one has to choose between men’s or women’s wear, or lingerie or swimwear. Get yourself briefs that can do, and be, both.
I want intimate apparel to be modeled by people that look like me and all the other people I love. I want to see them as they are, because they are beautiful this way. To hell with Photoshop altering the beauty of humans. And I need all these beautiful garments made by people that are paid like me, and are able to live like me. As in nature, if we can change the fashion industry from the bottom up, we are going to go a very long way.
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