It was through fashion, and a mutual appreciation for Paris Is Burning, that she befriended designer Kim Jones, whose runway soundtracks she has worked on from his tenure at Louis Vuitton menswear to his current position as artistic director of Dior Men, and now at Fendi, where he was recently appointed artistic director of the women’s collection, debuting with the Spring 2021 couture collection in January this year. Natalie Shukur got the longtime friends on the phone—Honey in Berlin and Kim in London—where they talked about their affinity for researching and collecting subcultural ephemera, their disdain for inspiration-zapping internet “like” culture, and their love of small clubs and loud music.
Natalie Shukur: Let’s start at the beginning. How did you both meet?
Kim Jones: We were in New York in 2003 at a presentation KCD had organized for me. Honey came with Andre Walker, and at the end of the night we ended up rolling around on the floor drunk together!
Honey Dijon: That’s about right. My introduction to Kim was, I was going to DJ in London with my best friend Derrick Carter. There was a store called The Pineal Eye and we just happened to walk over there, and there was this installation of all these very influential, historic Chicago house records and flyers. Derrick and I looked at each other and were like, “Who the fuck knows about this other than us?!” I wasn’t aware of Kim at that time, and I saw that it was him. After that I started to see his name pop up because I was always buying i-D magazine. Then I was in New York and I kept talking to people about Kim Jones and this exhibit, and one of those people was Andre Walker who told me about your presentation, and that’s how we ended up meeting.
KJ: That was actually my 2002 graduate collection from [Central] Saint Martins, and the two people I met through that were you and Michael Stipe, because he bought quite a lot of the collection, and you and Derrick got into it, and then John Galliano bought half the collection as well. And that’s how I started. I never wanted to do my own brand, I just wanted to get a job, and then I sort of did it for eight years. Honey, I think you started doing the music in 2005.
HD: Yeah, we have such a long history. It’s so funny because you’re always the same Kim to me, but to see how much you’ve achieved is just so incredible. You were so generous in the beginning of our friendship when I would come to London, you’d let me stay at your house, and we would both geek out because I’m such a collector and a research fiend. We’re really like soulmates in that way. We became such good friends through that and then Paris Is Burning [laughs].
KJ: [laughs] Which I first saw on VHS and actually wore the cassette out because I literally watched it on repeat, and I’ve got all the ephemera and extra footage and everything. I got so obsessed with that film. It’s the bravery of those people; it completely opened my mind to a different world. And I remember my first show in Paris I got Willi Ninja to do the casting.
HD: I don’t know how other people work, but Kim is so well versed and so knowledgeable about music, from pop culture to underground dance music to soundtracks to punk or new wave. He’s so clear about things and it’s mostly just about how we can interpret his vision for what he’s doing at the moment.
KJ: Quite often, the music is the thing I think about at the beginning of the collection, and even if we do have other people involved, Honey still does the mixing, like with Nile Rodgers and Giorgio Moroder or Michael Stipe when he came over to your house. . .
HD: Oh my God, I will never forget when Michael Stipe came over to my small studio apartment and we had to put a stocking over a microphone because it was not a proper studio. And he redid the song. When I tell people that, they’re like, “You had Michael Stipe at your house singing on the microphone with pantyhose?” But it just seemed completely normal! Nellee Hooper and Nile Rodgers and Giorgio Moroder—for someone that’s been a part of house music culture since the beginning, working with these pioneers is just like a dream come true. And now just recently having Lady Miss Kier do the vocals for Dior. . .
KJ: Exactly. And Honey introduced me to Kenny [Scharf] and to Kier for that, because obviously she’s a New Yorker and Kier is quite elusive now. But Honey tracked her down.
HD: And she’s not an easy pickle to track down, either! But it’s been fun—especially working in fashion, which can be really esoteric—to bring all of these things just from a place of being a fan of those people and that music. How I found out about fashion was from house music culture. You know, these Black kids from the South Side of Chicago or these gay kids would read L’Uomo Vogue and look to what was happening in New York and they would come to the club in Ferré and Montana and Versace. That was my form of education before I even bought magazines—seeing Black kids in the clubs.
KJ: The Music Box scene and just reading about all the different types of style that people wore was the inspiration for my first graduate collection.
HD: I want to do a project that celebrates all the different dress codes that were subcultures from house music because there were so many. And that’s the thing I struggle with today in fashion. I always love fashion from an inspirational instead of an aspirational point because I love it when people use clothing to express themselves and find their people and find their community.
KJ: I like to go right to the original source, always. Music is such an important part of the show and I think very carefully about what’s chosen for it. I mean, that Supreme Louis Vuitton show with Chez Damier, the “Can You Feel It” track, which everyone freaks out about still.
HD: I think my favorite was your last runway show for Vuitton, “We’re Not Gonna Be Shady, Just Fierce!”, because it felt like the most honest soundtrack I’ve done with you.
KJ: It’s just that mixing of everything. I’m obsessed with New York in the ’80s. You look at the downtown scene and how the art, the music, the fashion was just one thing together. What I really admire about that is no one was doing it for the money. Money is a byproduct of success; they were doing it for the love of what they do.
HD: It’s so funny you say that. I haven’t been able to buy things from that time within the last five years. I mean, up until five years ago I didn’t have any fucking money that I was able to surround myself with all these artifacts from that time, from Chicago and New York, and London, too. There’s this book that I really want to get but it’s out of print, of all the club kids from the early ’80s, and it’s super hard to find.
KJ: The Chicago thing, it’s impossible to find anything. I’ve got some pictures of the Music Box and that’s it. And then the flyers, which I got on eBay years ago, and that was by chance.
HD: Well, that’s the problem with a lot of subcultures. A lot of the New York gay scene—Black gay scene—was undocumented, too. I don’t see any pictures from Tracks, very few pictures from Better Days. There’s only a few pictures really even from the Garage. If you think about it, that was from 1977 to 1987, and in that ten years you really don’t see that many pictures, other than the Keith Haring stuff or the Tina Paul stuff.
KJ: Yeah, or in The Booth.
HD: Or Bill Bernstein from The Booth. I think the difference between now and then is that people were living it and not documenting it, like they are today. Every second is documented today. I think people now are living with the image of the experience instead of living the experience.
KJ: I do think that is what’s a bit sad. It’s like the fun goes because people can’t let their hair down because they’re worried about how they look. It seems to have almost stopped inspiration happening, in a way.
HD: If the only reason for doing something is to get liked, it’s pretty sad [laughs]. As someone who is around a lot of famous people, I wish I could tell people, some of your mates are more exciting than the people that are famous. I like people that achieve fame through merit or contribution.
KJ: Yeah, I just don’t think to see it any other way. I graduated twenty years ago in March, and that feels like a second. And I think about all the things I’ve done in that time and I still can’t believe what I do for a living. But I really appreciate it and I enjoy it.
HD: This pandemic has really brought into focus how lucky I am. When people ask what success means for me, I say, one: I survived as a trans person of color, and two: I have been able to live my life as an artist. Money and other stuff are nice perks, but the fact that I can get up every day and choose my day and not have my day chosen for me, and that people respond to what I love and what I want to put out in the world, and to be able to collaborate with people like yourself and Kenny . . . that’s the success, not the stuff that comes after. And now, to be the first trans woman of color to guest edit an international fashion publication, it’s just so great for my community.
KJ: That’s a lasting legacy—it’s historic. I can’t wait to see what else you’ve done.
HD: I can’t wait to see what else I’m doing too, cause this pandemic needs to stop! [laughs].
NS: Obviously you’re both in industries that really rely on a lot of travel and showmanship and an audience. How has that adjustment been for you both?
KJ: For me, we went from doing proper shows to digital. I didn’t want anyone to get sick from working, that was for sure. You have to really just go with the flow. It must be harder for Honey, because you need that reaction! I get that reaction a few times a year, you’re like that virtually every night!
HD: That instant connection to people has been completely wiped away. Not only for DJs but every live artist that relies on touring to live, and not just financially, but for sustenance as an artist. I highly doubt someone’s going to look back at this time and say, “I had the most incredible stream of my life with my friends,” [laughs]. I didn’t stream for a long time because I have a problem with everything being so consumed. And in today’s age, most people don’t want to pay for art, they don’t want to pay for music, they don’t want to pay for movies and so, it was a constant struggle: how do I stay modern as a musician without having it be so consumable and disposable? Because clubs—these are where people meet life partners and have life-changing experiences and make memories that last forever.
KJ: I have a lot of information in my house, which has made it fine for me to do research for my collections, because I’m working on about six at the moment. Fendi is actually quite a hard brand to research because there’s not so many books on it. The Italian Vogue archive is amazing but trying to do research in lockdown. . . I’m missing Tokyo; I’m missing going to places that make me think in different ways.
HD: It’s really hard as a musician too. When I was in London earlier this year, I went to some jazz clubs. Hearing different music in different environments or going to hear different DJs. . . it’s really difficult because you can’t push music forward or your art forward from a bubble. To feel the bass or to see how other people’s bodies react to different frequencies in music, you just can’t get that in front of a fucking computer looking at YouTube.
KJ: And also with loud music, you hear different parts of the music. And I like music loud.
HD: I love music loud. I like everything loud [laughs]. Except loud people.
NS: Honey, is there a favorite outfit of Kim’s that you’ve worn?
HD: I can tell you a favorite thing that Kim has gifted me and there’s only one that exists in the world. When we did the Supreme show, he made me a Louis Vuitton 12-inch record bag. And I remember when Helmut Lang did one for Frankie Knuckles back in the day. So, the fact that I have my own—because I was super envious that Frankie had one from Helmut Lang that he had made at Vuitton—Kim made me one. It has a red handle, and it’s my most treasured thing.
NS: Being friends all these years, is their specific stuff you go to each other for?
KJ: Anything, anything, anything that has to do with life.
HD: Ditto.
KJ: It’s weird the lives that we live, and it’s good to have other people who live the same lives that you can talk to. I’m very proud of everything I’ve achieved in my life and I’m proud of everything Honey has achieved in her life. We’ve both overcome a lot of stuff. Honey has dealt with a lot more as I always tell her, and I think that it’s a support network. And that’s really important to me.
HD: It’s just pure friendship. And trust. honest, pure friendship, which is priceless. We go to each other for friendship. And comfort. And support. And love.
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